Whfb – Dwarves vs Warriors of Chaos pt 2 – Battle report

As discussed in the previous list post, I had a number of things I wanted to achieve with this game: Trying out the terrain table, trying out one of the adapted scenarios and giving Luke an experience of a more gunline orientated Dwarf list.

However, after managing a measly 3 turns each in our previous game we added another item to the list and that was to beat that. How did we do I wonder?

Terrain

We rolled on the adapted KOW terrain generator that Neil previously put together for that competition and ended up with terrain table 2.  Luke won the roll and became player A for the purpose of the instructions.

1. Player A places river 2ft from any short table edge running from long edge to long edge (4ft length).
2. Player B places 3*hills (2*normal, 1*Anvil of Vaul [Unit within 6” has Flaming and Magical Attacks]) anywhere on the table except in DZ’s, and no more than 6” from any table edges.
3. Player A places 1* tree base in any DZ no more than 9” from any table edge.
4. Player B places 1 building with WHF touching in the opposite DZ that the trees are in, no more than 6” from any table edge.

The table ended up looking something like this.

Scenario

We had a discussion and decided on playing the Loot scenario which was taken from the Kings of War BRB. The adapted rules are below.

Played as per the Blood and Glory rulebook scenario, except:

• After terrain has been set up but before deployment, place 3 loot counters on the battlefield. The first is placed in the dead centre of the board. The players then take turns to place one other counter on the centre line but at least 12” away from the other counters.
• During the game, when one of your fortitude bearing units*** ends its move on the counter, it can pick it up. (Note: A unit can carry more than one counter). Non fortitude bearing units cannot pick up loot but may ‘sit’ on top of tokens to block other units from picking them up. NOTE: You cannot move on to, or pick up a loot counter during a vanguard move or when placing scouts (they can capture the loot counter or contest it during the players first turn. Which one depends on if they meet the fortitude restrictions).
• Whilst carrying a counter a unit’s move is halved.
• A unit can choose to drop a counter at the start of its move and then move off normally. (A unit cannot pick up and drop a counter in the same turn but another unit can pick up the dropped counter).
• If a unit flees for any reason (e.g. due to failed psychology tests or as a charge reaction) it drops any counters it holds.
• If a unit fails its break test, it immediately drops any counters it holds. If the unit that beat them in combat is a fortitude bearing unit***, then it immediately picks up the token. (If several eligible units are in combat, then the winner of the combat can choose who to give the token to).
• If a fortitude bearing unit*** holding a counter falls beneath 5 (or 3 Monstrous) models, it still retains hold of the loot counter (unless it flees).
• At the end of the battle, you score one point for each counter held. If you have more than your opponent, then you win, otherwise it is a draw.

Pre-match rolls and Deployment

Dwarf hatred was against all, which I then proceeded to forget A LOT (amateur hour on my behalf).

In terms of spells, Luke’s level 1 took fireball. His Daemon Prince ended up with Spirit Leech, Soul Blight, Fate of Bhuna and Purple Sun.

I laid the first unit but also finished deployment first and despite getting +1 for that and after a number of tied rolls, Luke won the first turn.

(just for a clarity the chaos knights are Marauder horsemen and oldhammer juggernaughts are the Chaos knights).

Luke surprised me by splitting his force between the flanks with nothing in the centre ground. It meant my decoy Longbeards and supporting Gyro were going to take a mauling. The only hope was that being stubborn, they would hold up that flank until the last dwarf and perhaps do some damage in return.

I forgot to take any photos of the Dwarf deployment so took a few during the Daemon first turn.

Turn 1 – Warriors

The Daemon right flank surged forward to contest the loot counter on that side from the get-go. Fearing the flaming cannon the Chimera sloped off and bravely hid behind the building.

In an uneventful magic phase, the sorcerer invoked the power of the Skull of Katam, which did nothing bar reduce his leadership by 1. He then threw a fireball into the Longbeards turning two of them into flaming pillars, for a couple of seconds, before they reduced to ash and their charred armour fell to the ground.

The Hell cannon decided to try and add to their misery but it’s shot went wide of the mark.

Turn 1 – Dwarves

Barlin ordered the Silvergate Guard to fall back slightly to allow the shooters clear line of sight to the ravening hordes.

The gyrocoptors each removed a handful of the chaos hounds, with the surviving hound by the Longbeards failing it’s panic test and running. The quarrellers took off a few of the warriors.

In an unimpressive round of shooting, the Cannon and Grudge Thrower, both failed to wound or damage the Hellcannon. Burnnoth rolled his eyes at the incompetence of the crews and under his direction the Organ Gun hit and damaged the daemon bound into the infernal engine.

Turn 2 – Warriors

Thrud urged his daemonic mount forward and despite the rune of slowness flaring, crashed into the Flamewardens, their defensive shots deflecting off his plate armour.

The Chimera charged at the nearest Gyrocoptor and it chose to flee rather than face the winged beast.

The Warshrine on the other side of the board, likewise charged the Gyrocoptor and it to fled.

The fleeing hound failed to rally and went off the board.

Both the Chaos Warriors and the Marauders picked up the loot tokens on edge side of the battlefield.

The sorcerer again invoked the skull and again did nothing bar lose a point of leadership. 2 down and 6 to go! (at this point, 12 dice had been rolled by the sorcerer with no successful channels. Epic rolling.)

At this point the Daemon Prince decided to get involved. Spirit Leech was scrolled but Soulblight was cast with irresistible force at the Irondrakes. The resultant miscast stripped the Prince of his Charmed shield (meaning he was now a prime target for the Grudge Thrower) and the effect of the spell meant Thrudd was able to kill 2 of the Irondrakes with no damage taken in return.

The Hellcannon, deciding to follow the effectiveness of the dwarves, targeted the Organ gun figuring it was the most dangerous of the artillery. The shot scattered, hit the Grudge Thrower and then failed to wound it. At this point the artillery on both sides had been poor.

Brave Sir Robin ran away!

When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled.

The Marauder Horse have had enough of half movement and escape the river!

Turn 2 – Dwarves

The Gyrocoptor couldn’t take the shame of fleeing near the longbeards and under their stern gaze, turned back towards the fight. The other Gyro didn’t have any such shame and fled the table. (I feel that I ought to mention that the older style gyro has repeatedly under performed for me in nearly every battle. As such a new model has been commissioned to be built and the pilot of the older model has shaved his head, taken the slayer oath and will likely not be seen on the field of battle again!).

The Hammerers, recognising the forces of Chaos were now in a commanding position, marched at speed towards their forces.

The quarrellers also advanced towards the centre loot counter.

Trying to make up for the previous round of combat, the cannon took a few wounds off the Hellcannon. The Organ Gun and Grudge Thrower, both aimed at the Prince, stripping him of 3 wounds (at this point he started to look very concerned sitting as he was on one wound).

With Soulblight still in effect, the Irondrakes continued to lose dwarves but remained resolute.

The Longbeards, wanting to avenge the earlier burning of their kin, charged into the Sorcerer (who was unable to flee). They easily won combat and chose to run him down rather than letting him escape to fight another day.

Turn 3 – Warriors

Wanting to escape from the attention of the dwarven artillery, the Prince charged into the Irondrakes and completely whiffed his attacks (though the dwarves followed suit and failed to remove the last wound). The Chimera followed him in between his attention and the thunderstomps, removed 8 of the doughty dwarves. Thrud challenged out the unit champion and cut him down gaining a point of toughness in the process.

Magic was again uneventful with the dwarves dispelling or scrolling everything the Prince or Warshrines tried.

On the other flank, the Chaos Warriors, Knights and Warshrine, all charged the Longbeards. Eight of them died under the onslaught though they killed one knight in return and damaged the shrine.

The Marauder horse charged the remaining Gyro and though the horsemen failed to do anything, one of the horses at least damaged the machine. In return the Gyro’s rotors cut one of the twisted humans in half.

Turn 3 – Dwarves

The Hammerers charged the hounds blocking them and swiftly pulverised them.

The Organ gun fired at the nearby Warshrine taking off 3 wounds. The cannon again shot at the Hellcannon, leaving it on a single wound. The Grudge thrower hit the unit of Marauders carrying the loot, taking out half the unit. The nearby Prince and BSB ensured they didn’t run.

The Prince and Chimera finally finished off the Irondrakes but Thrud was unable to kill off the Runesmith so both him and Thrud remained locked in combat.

On the other flank, another 8 Longbeards fell under the triple attack but in return they destroyed the warshrine. The final Gyro failed its break test and fled the table with the horsemen unable to catch it.

Turn 4 – Warriors

With time rapidly running out, we decided to power on and play a final turn each. The Hellcannon attempted to charge the quarrellers but failed. In his next move, Luke managed to get the Marauder foot carrying the loot into the nearby building and with no way of getting to them and with agreeing that the Longbeards should just be removed, then Luke would have won 2 -1 on loot, so we called it. (In my turn, the quarrellers would have picked up the central loot counter).

Results

It was 2-1 in the Warriors favour.

Conclusion

Thinking about it, I shouldn’t have called it. The cannon could have shot at the building and with D6 str 10 hits, rerolling wounds due to flaming, there was a good chance that the marauder unit would have died (or run) thus dropping their loot token meaning the game would have ended a draw. Nevermind.

So how did the scenario play. Both of us really enjoyed it. It definitely gets you thinking in a different way. The half movement when carrying the loot is a great touch and definitely messes with plans. Overall it worked really well and we felt very little had to be changed (bar some clarity on early game capturing of the tokens, as I had nothing about scouts in it. Note – the scenario rules in the beginning of this report incorporate the changes made).

The Terrain table also worked well and we were both happy with this too.

In terms of the army, the Gromril armour/GW loadout on the Runesmith was excellent. I definitely want to try that out again, perhaps on a thane. The Grudgethrower was OK. It wasn’t probably the best army to try it out against and one outing isn’t enough to make any kind of judgement. The Irondrakes are becoming a bit predictable so if I take dwarves again, I will definitely use something else, perhaps rangers and maybe some miners. I also need to commit the hammerers a lot earlier as again they didn’t do anything (bar give anything stubborn).

 

Whfb – Dwarves vs Warriors of Chaos pt 1 – lists.

I am loving the hobby at the moment. Although I’ve barely managed to pick up a paintbrush recently, I have managed to get in a higher than normal number of games. It’s helped that I’ve discovered an active community of fellow 8th edition lovers at: http://eefl.freeforums.net/ and so the gaming side has jumped up the list of priorities (or to be exact, the gulf between that and painting has grown further).

On the weekly Friday club night, I’ve arranged to have a rematch vs Luke’s WoC. This game has a multi-faceted purpose: We will be trying out the terrain table that I adapted from Neil’s KOW comp pack: We will also try out one of the new scenarios I’ve put together from various sources and as I promised him, this time I’ll bring my take on the classic Dwarf gunline.

So what will my list look like:

The Throng of Karak Silvertop

Characters

Barlin Silvertop – General, Runesmith – shield, Ro Stone, Ro Spellbreaking * 2 – 113pts

Harak Silvertop – Runesmith – GW, Mro Gromril, Ro Spellbreaking – 121pts

Drugin Silvertop – BSB, Thane – Shield, MRo Valaya – 158pts

Burnoth Strongarm – Master Engineer – BoP, Ro Stone – 85pts

Core

25 Longbeards – GW, FC, Ro Stoicism – 415pts

14 Quarrellers – GW, musician, standard – 216pts

Special

23 Hammerers (The Silvergate Guard) – Musician, standard, MRo Groth One-eye – 417pts

Grudge Thrower – Ro Penetrating, Ro Forging, Ro Accuracy – 170pts

Cannon (Lizardbane) – Ro Forging, Ro Burning – 150pts

Gyrocoptor (Valkyrie) – 80pts

Gyrocoptor – 80pts

Rare

Organ gun (Little Betty) – Ro Accuracy – 145pts

19 Irondrakes – FC, Bo Drakefire pistols, Ro Slowness – 350pts

Total – 2500pts

List thoughts

This list is very close the the previous one taken in my game against Neil. As such I’ve covered most of the reasons for the choices in my previous post (here). So i’ll just cover the changes to the list and the reason for making them.

There were 2 changes to characters. The first was to change the load out of the Runesmith that goes in the Irondrakes. He was given a 1+ save and a great weapon to give the unit a bit more punch (and I liked the idea of taking a more combat orientated character). He still retains the rune of spellbreaking.

The second change was dropping one of the Master Engineers. The reason for this was because I decided to swop out one of the two Organ Guns and replace it with a Grudge Thrower. He wasn’t needed as adding Runes to the machine worked out cheaper.

I took the grudge thrower for a couple of reasons. I hadn’t used a stone thrower in this edition and after the last battle, I realised I needed another long range threat in case one of them is taken out early on. The grudge thrower with Rune of Penetrating, gives another S10 long range attack and also gives a template attack that causes S4 hits on everything else under the template. It also has the advantage of being able to fire indirectly (so could hit Ironblasters/skullcannons hiding behind buildings).

The only other changes were to the Irondrakes. Having failed (yet again) to hit anything all game with it, I removed the Trollhammer Torpedo and replaced it with my preferred Brace of Drake Pistols. The points saving, together with the saving from removing the Master Engineer, also allowed me to bump up the numbers of the unit.

 

Luke’s Warriors of Chaos

Characters

Lumpsucker – Daemon Prince of Nurgle, General – Lvl 4 of Death, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Scaled Skin, Soulfeeder – 445pts

Landfill – Sorcerer – Lvl 1 Lore of Fire, Daemonic Mount, Enchanted Shield, Skull of Katam – 165pts

Thrud – Exalted Hero of Tzeentch, BSB – Daemonic Mount, Talisman of Preservation, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Flail – 240pts

Core

10 Marauders – Standard – 70pts

5 Warhounds – 30pts

5 Warhounds – 30pts

20 Warriors – FC, Mark of Nurgle, Halberd, Gleaming Pennant – 415pts

5 Marauder Horsemen – Standard, Champion, Mark of Slannesh, Flail – 105pts

Special

5 Chaos Knights – Standard, Champion, Mark of Nurgle, Ensorcelled Weapons – 245pts

Chaos Warshrine – Mark of Tzeentch – 135pts

Chaos Warshrine – Mark of Tzeentch – 135pts

Chimera – Flaming Breath, Regenerating Flesh – 275pts

Rare

Hellcannon – 210pts

Total – 2500pts

 

Luke created this list, adhering to my first draft of the Army Building restrictions for the 2017 competition. I had warned him it would very likely change but I suspect it made him think about taking something different in his list. He has ensured he has more standards in the list as many of the objectives require units of 5+ with standard to win. 

He is also trying out a chimera for the first time, a unit I think he will very much like.

Thrud has been moved from a disc to a daemonic mount. Yes he loses some manoeuverability but he gains a wound and a point of toughness. I think this is a good move as in both our previous games (with me using Beastmen and Dwarves respectively), I’ve killed him off in combat despite the 3+, 3++ saves he was sporting.

The DP has also reverted back to the Lore of Death and with its upgrades, I really don’t want it getting into combat.

I will say that my main aim of the game will be to test out and try and ensure the new scenarios work as expected. Of course I will be trying to win but that is not the primary aim.

WHFB – Dwarves vs Luke’s WoC – part 2 – Battle report

With barely a rumble, the bridge pivoted up to connect to the causeway that extended out from the other side of the vast chasm, running alongside the side of the mountain. The only sign of the massive counter weights and dwarvern mechanisms powering it were the two enormous chains running from the underside of the bridge into darkened recesses within the cliff. As the two sections smoothly came together, the giant gates set back under the overhanging archway, opened and receded into the statues of the ancestor gods that stood on either side. The air was split with the sound of rasping horns and almost immediately, with iron shod boots striking the ground in lockstep, the dwarves appeared from within the depths of the silver capped mountain that gave the hold its name. The throng of Karak Silvertop once more marched to war!

As covered in my last post about the army lists, this week I had the pleasure of facing off against Luke and his oldhammer Warriors of Chaos.

Pre-match rolls and Terrain

With 5 spells to roll for, the Deamon Princes had everything with the exception of Stream of Corruption and Blades of Putrefaction.

The Dwarf hatred roll was against all characters.

The scenario rolled was battleline.

Terrain

For once we decided to roll everything using the BRB including the terrain and ended up with the following:

Forest (turned out to be a Blood forest)

River (completely forgot to roll for the effects)

Magic circle (MR 2 within 6″), depicted by the blood alter on the map.

Wizards tower (You gain lore master of your chosen lore for the turn).

Building (normal)

Nehekharan Sphinx – If you pass an initiative test you can gain either: HKB, lore master of death or something else that I cannot remember (or be bothered to look up now) for the rest of the game.

We decided that the Sphinx was massively overpowered and that only one death spell could be gained with each test.

I will say, that this is one of the things i really never liked about 8th. Why can’t terrain just be terrain. Why does everything have to have sodding magical properties. It always seemed to be unnecessary and unneeded addition to the game.

As it went all the random terrain was pretty moot, as after I won the roll for sides and we switched over, I promptly stuck the horde of hammerers on the Sphinx to block the prince getting to it and we then proceeded to completely forgot about the terrain special rules!

Deployment

I nearly deployed entirely on my left flank to take advantage of the open terrain but with the sphinx dead centre, I wanted to control that and the house was ready made to protect one flank (and more importantly the organ gun) and allowed me to place the quarreller unit in there, so they would not only be able to shoot in any direction without penalty but it would also protect them in combat and give them stubborn. The two hordes were placed front and centre and the Irondrakes were placed to guard the flank.

Turn 1 – WoC

With a great cry, the forces of the dark gods pushed forward on all fronts. The Juggernauts of Khorne showed an amazing amount of restraint, keeping their wits enough to maximise the range of the organ gun.

The prince called on the favor of his deity and the juggers were the recipients, flesh toughening in response. The warriors on the shrines chanted in unison and the eye of the gods turned on their champions with Thrudd’s muscular caricature growing further.

The depraved, twisted cousins of the dwarves goaded their charge to target the hammerers but the enraged daemon broke free of it’s chains, devouring it’s handlers and wounding the nearby daemon prince.

The hammerers watched, unimpressed, as the hail of javelins launched at them all failed to clear the nearby river.

Turn 1 – Dwarves

The gyrocoptors flew towards the large unit of Warriors and although at the maximum distance for their weapons effective range, still managed to roast 5 of the putrescent ones. The irondrakes stepped up and chargrilled 4 of the dogs in front of them, the stench of cooked tainted meat was not enough to send the final member of the pack running though.

The quarrellers in a rare moment of total ineptitude, all targeted the same dog. That dog obviously died, pincusioned with bolts and with their faces flaming behind their beards the crossbow dwarves were glad the walls of the house hid their shame from their brethren.

The crew of the organ gun, seeing the Daemon Prince had been gravely wounded tried some speculative shots to finish off the fell beast but they all went wide of the mark instead shredding the trees surrounding him.

Turn 2 – WoC

The warriors charged into the nearest of the gyro’s and dispite the warped diseases that threatened to twist the flesh of the flyer, he staved them off, striking a warrior down in the process. The experience was unnerving enough that with his machine rusting before his eyes, his nerve broke and he peeled off and made for the hills.

The Maurauder horse and remaining hound attempted to charge the irondrakes but the runes on their standard flared brightly causing both units to stumble and pull up short of their target. Seeing the failure of the nearby units to charge the drakes, Thrudd instead flew across the river to set up a favourable future charge.

On the other side of the river, the dogs failed to charge the organ gun, thus impeding the ability of the Skullcrushers to do anything. Bellowing in frustration they steered their mounts to the side, determined that they would not be denied their tally of skulls.

The Daemon Prince realised staying put was just inviting the artillery to keep targeting him and determined to share the gifts of the allfather, tore into the warrior horde. Four of the brave dwarves fell beneath his claws and a further warrior was shredded from the miscast explosion that also took a further wound from the prince. (Edit: with a single wound now remaining, Luke was now somewhat concerned for the safely of the Prince!)

Turn 2 – Dwarves

The Gyro finished it’s tactical retreat and once again turned to face the warriors. His squadron partner, used the time to get into a prime position and fired his steam gun at full force. Seven of the Nurgle warriors fell to the ground with the putrid flesh sluiced off their bones as the boiling steam turned the armour into a pressure cookers.

The quarrellers, making up for their early failure, wiped out the remaining dogs, opening up the path for the Organ Gun to then target the Skullcrushers. With typical efficiency the machine cut down one of the monstrous infantry and left a second hanging onto life.

The Hammerers charged into the mauraders who fled, panicking the nearby hound. They then redirected into the trolls who also fled. The Daemon prince continued it’s one man monster crusade of destruction, killing another 5 dwarves and healing a wound in the process.

Turn 3 – WoC

Thrudd and the nearby Warshrine both charged into the Irondrakes. The defensive fire once again proving ineffective against the well armoured BSB. In the ensuing combat the Irondrakes showed their elite status, wounding Thudd and the damaging the warshrine twice for the loss of just two of their number.

The few remaining warriors of Nurgle recharged the damaged Gyro, this time completing what they started and permanently grounding the machine.

The Skullcrushers finally managed to get a charge off, targeting the quarrellers. Much to their frustration they needed to dismount to attack the dwarves and were quickly repulsed from their building assault. The Warshrine supported this by attacking the organ gun and destroying the proud machine. The Prince continued his demolition of the warriors, again gaining a wound but unable to shift the steadfast dwarves.

The marauder horse and single hound continued their run from the battle but the Trolls rallied and turned to face the battlefront.

Turn 3 – Dwarves

In what turned out to be the final turn of the game, the remaining gyrocoptor continued to whittle down the warrior unit, this time taking out just two of them. The Irondrake combat continued with 2 more of the dwarvern elite falling but in return they bought down the enemy BSB and inflicted a further wound on the shrine, that they then proceeded to run down as it fled from the implacable dwarves.

The Prince killed off a handful of the stout warriors and they failed to inflict any damage in return.

Throgg and the Trolls once again fled from the attention of the Hammerers, who pulled up just inside the woods

Results

Running out of time and with so little of the battle played, very little destruction had been achieved. I’d lost my Organ Gun (145pts) and a Gyrocoptor (80pts) and Luke had lost his BSB (241pts), a warshrine (135pts), the hellcannon (210pts) and a pack of dogs (30pts) which, when also factoring in the bonus 50VPs from killing the BSB, gave me a 666 to 225 victory.

Conclusions

On the drive back we had a chat about how we thought the rest of the battle might have played out. We agreed that the Irondrakes killing the bsb and the shrine had given me the edge.

On the left flank, the Warriors were in real trouble, they could have retreated but the Irondrakes would have been able to move across and finish them off (perhaps with the assistance of the Gyro)

It the centre, the hammerers would probably have done a swift reform and moved to attack the Prince in turn 5. If the Warriors were able to hold for another turn or two (which should have been possible due to steadfast) it would ensure the prince was held which should have allowed this. This would have likely resulted in a dead prince. However the nearby shrine might have been able to charge the dwarf Warriors (though I would have used my engineer to try and delay this), which could have swung the combat allowing the prince to avoid the hammerers. Either way the Dwarf Warriors survivability was looking as likely as their chaotic compadres. 

The juggernaut riders could possibly have finished off the quarrellers but with steadfast and Lukes rolls, they likely would have taken all game to do so (especially as the xbow dwaves wouldn’t have to initiate combat in their turn).

I forget how psychological this game can be, especially if you haven’t faced a specific unit before. For Luke it was the Hammerers, he was trying to avoid it (successfully) at all costs. For me it was Throgg and the Trolls. I’ve seen Luke roll a phenomenal number of saves before so that regen was really worrying me.

In terms of the list, it played reasonably well. The ease in which Luke avoided the hammerers just bought to the forefront the major weakness with Dwarf armies, their movement and as such when taking large blocks of troops you need to ensure the options for the enemy are all bad (or that there isn’t one option that is better than another). In hindsight this meant that I should have put at least the lord in the warriors as he would have bolstered the weaker unit making neither of them a good prospect to attack.

The two Runesmiths, Banner of Valaya and 2 dispel scrolls really helped contain the magic phase and the banner especially, gave me a massive  edge vs the bound warshrine spells. As it went I only used one of the dispel scrolls in the last turn and probably wouldn’t have bothered doing so if it hadn’t been the last turn.

My unit of the match was definitely the Gyrocoptors that between them they killed off 14 of the Warriors, though my Irondrakes were probably a close second once again proving their worth.

My next match may be against Luke using a full gunline but I also know that Neil is interested in a game too.

 

WHFB – Dwarves vs Luke’s WoC – part 1 – lists and thoughts.

With the completion of my KOW group games and the new edition of 40k not out until June, I thought i’d try and get in a few games of whfb.

Like me, Luke was a former player who took a break (you can see from the pictures in this post that his figures are very much oldhammer and I love his banners) and came back to warhammer late in the day so both of us are still very much into 8th ed. As such I proposed a series of games against him and having multiple armies I asked him what he had never played in 8th. Of the one’s easily to hand, it was Dwarves and Wood Elves. In order to give him a competitive game I said i’d bring Dwarves to start with and then later on i’d give wood elves a go (and offered him the use of any of my armies for the evening, if he wanted to try something else). Having decided the race, I then offered him the choice of what sort of army he wanted to face: Full gunline, all melee or combined arms. He wanted to try a bit of everything for the first game (and as we were playing a series of games, I could bring something different next time). So with that said (and after some good advice from the EEFL forum – which of course I then mainly ignored ;p), I decided on the following list:

The Throng of Karak Silvertop

Characters – 658pts

Knoffles Silvertop – (General) Lord – Shieldbearers + GW + Ro Fortitude + 2 * Ro Iron – 271pts

Drugin Silvertop – (BSB) Thane – MRo Gromril + GW – 126pts

Harek Silvertop – Runesmith – Ro Stone + Ro Spellbreaking + Shield – 93pts

Barlin Silvertop – Runesmith – Ro Stone + Ro Spellbreaking + Ro Furnace + Shield – 98pts

Burrnoth Strongarm – Master Engineer – 70pts

Core – 626pts

Quarrellers (14) – Standard + GW – 205pts

Dwarf Warriors (39) – FC + GW – 420pts

Special – 749pts

Hammerers (36) – Musician + Standard + Ro Valaya – 589pts

Gyrocoptor – 80pts

Gyrocoptor – 80pts

Rare – 465pts

Irondrakes (17) – FC + Brace of Drakeguns + Ro Slowness – 320pts

Organ gun – Ro Accuracy – 145pts

List thoughts

Though there are elements of what i would normally include the build is somewhat different in order to give Luke a flavor of different dwarf options.

Although I love the model and this is my preferred build if I take him, I would not normally take a dwarf lord, if only because for the points I could fit in another unit! He is however great fun and is the head of Karak Silvertop so for fluff I love taking him in lists (and he is amazingly tanky and it will give Luke a chance to play against him). This build gives him a 2+ armour save, 4 str 6 attacks (and 2 str 4 attacks) and a toughness of 7 with 6 wounds. Almost monster stats, all in someone that still maintains the lookout sir rule!

The two Runesmiths are often staples and with the BSB are known to Dwarf players as the holy trinity. I’ve kept them as bare minimum build so they have a 2+ save and a ‘dispel rune’ each.

I’ve gone for a BSB build I don’t normally take as I wanted to try it out. I have been taking the MRo Grungni because as standard, that gives him a 4+ ward (with a 3+ armour save) and a 5+ ward vs shooting for anything within 6″. I found that this was quite situational so decided to keep him cheap and quite hitty with a 1+ armour save and great weapon. I did toy with giving him a Ro Iron to add another wound but taking more characters than normal meant I tried to keep loadouts at a minimum.

The Master Engineer I would normally give a BoP and Ro Stone but again with points restrictions he is being fielded as standard. I nearly dropped him but with only 1 warmachine in the list, I wanted to maximise it’s potential and use him as a guard.

I’ve fielded shield beards as an anvil recently (mainly as the models were painted) with mixed success, however I decided their defensiveness wasn’t good enough and neither was the damage output. I have found that 8th seems to be more about damage output and so this left me with a dilemma. Having decided I wanted to take a horde, did I take a horde of GW longbeards (this comes to almost 625 on the nose), Warriors or Quarrellers. In the end I went with GW warriors as I have previously taken a horde of Quarrellers (so wanted to try something different) and also it allowed me to include a small unit of quarrellers anyway to make up the core tax and to counter any chaff. It’s worth noting that due to the poor initiative of dwarves, taking great weapons doesn’t really impact them as you normally strike last anyway.

I produced a gzillion lists in the run up to the game (it’s one of the elements that is head and shoulder above KOW) but decided that I wanted to bring a horde of hammerers. The potential damage output of this unit is obscene with 40 str 6 attacks (or str 7 if you charge). I’ve given them the magic banner with Ro Valaya so that, as standard, I am always dispelling on a +4 (or as a lvl 4 wizard lord equivalent). It also allows any remains in play spells to be dispelled on a 3+ each turn. This combined with the 2 channel attempts and 2 dispel runes means it should help to tie down the magic phase.

2 Gyro’s round out the special choices as they are fantastic chaff and the 2 flame templates will mince large low toughness units.

As i’ve stated before, Irondrakes are one of my favorite units and work as both an anvil and highly effective shooting unit (especially with the Ro Slowness). This is one of the reasons I will now rarely take shield dwarves.

The final element of the army is my single warmachine, an organ gun. It has a single Ro Accuracy, which when combined with the Engineer will give it a standard 2+ to hit, or 3+ at long range (15-30″). Added to the ME artillery dice reroll ability should make this pretty effective (assuming I roll well on the 2 art’ dice and it isn’t killed in a turn or 2).

I consider this a true dwarf combined arms list rather than a gunline. Yes it does have a number of shooting units and the number may be greater than other armies but for dwarves this is almost a minimum and only one warmachines is practically unheard of! I’m sure i’ll regret not taking a cannon but this list is not about warmachines. I’ll leave them for another day when I don’t take the lord and so have more points to spend.

The hammerer unit will go front and centre with the lord and bsb in it. The Irondrakes will be set up forward and will do their normal retreat each turn to try and maximise their shooting. Their priority will be the trolls. The quarrellers will likely be to one side of the hammerers (or GW dwarves) and will aiming to remove all chaff. If they are attacked, one of the hordes can counter (though with their stand and shoot and GW’s, they should be able to hold their own somewhat).

Luke’s Warriors of Chaos list

Nurgle Daemon Prince – level 4 Lore of nurgle, flight, chaos armour, charmed shield, sword of striking, dragonbane gem, scaled skin, soul feeder, Chaos familiar – 525pts

Exalted hero (bsb) – Disc of tzeentch, halberd, enchanted shield, MoT, tzeentch third eye – 241pts

Throgg – 195pts

5 chaos hounds – 30pts

5 chaos hounds – 30pts

21 Chaos Warriors of Nurgle – FC, MoN, halberd, banner of swiftness – 444pts

5  Chaos trolls – additional hand weapons – 190pts

Marauder horse – champion, standard, javelins, flails – 110pts

Warshrine – MoT – 135pts

Warshrine – MoT – 135pts

Hellcannon – 210pts

3 Skullcrushers – champion, standard, ensorcelled weapons – 254pts

When he sent it through, he said he wanted to try a double shrine list and the only point of the shrine is to maximise the chances of good rolls on the eye of the gods table and it also has a bound spell that allows D3 eligible characters/champs within 12″ to roll on it when cast. This explains the number of unit champions. I’m not sure if two is over kill though.

He also stated that he wanted to try Lore of nurgle rather than death. The lore is a good all round one. There are no terrible spells but it does also lack a killer spell too.  I will need to be careful of curse of the leper, as that spell reduces toughness which is one of my strengths. One of the spells also increases the regen save by +1 which would be filth on the trolls.

He also got caught out on blood and glory in the recent comp and so has ensured banners in every unit.

I’m also not sure if he has taken a prince before. If he has, he must have been quite lucky as 8th is often a cannon heavy meta and it is not well protected against them. As I don’t have one, I will have to contend with a 1+, 5++ (2++ vs fire). Knows 5 spells, channels on a 5+. Flies. Hits everything in my army on a 2+ and is at -1 to hit (so everything in my army hits on a minimum of 5+) and he regains wounds on a 6 in combat. Frankly this is a beast, though is over a fifth of his points in one model so it has to be high on the list to kill. *sigh* where’s my cannon. 

He also included the standard unkillable (although surprising killable) bsb, with a 1+ (3+ in combat), 3++ save (rerolling ward rolls of 1). I do think that the discs have to be the most under-priced mount in the game (well with perhaps the exception of the shieldbearers).

I’ve not faced Throgg before but he will obviously be going in the troll unit which makes that my number one target for the irondrakes. If they get some hits then the organ gun will be tasked with finishing them off (if it is still there, as it’s primary target has to be the prince and Luke has to be thinking that the organ needs to be gotten rid of early).

He has 3 sets of chaff and the quarrellers will be aiming for them asap with priority going to the unit nearest the organ gun (with perhaps the mauraders first if possible of only due to it having a champion).

 The gyros will generally be a nuisance but will primarily try and tie down the hell cannon as that could mince my large blocks.

And with all that said, I decided to post this early and give him a heads up in case he happens to read this before Friday. I’m nice like that.

Beastmen vs WoC – SELWG stage 2 practice game – Part 2

I will start off with an apology in this post. In my Battle with Luke’s WoC army on Friday, I started out making notes but these went somewhat out of the window as I realised I really needed to concentrate on what I was doing as I didn’t know my own army very well and having played Dwarves almost exclusively for a year, my knowledge of the combat phase was just as ropy (a shocking state of affairs).

As such, this report, even more than normal, is subject to memory rather than notes so may contain a few errors.

A recap of Luke’s list can be found here: Beastmen vs WoC – SELWG stage 2 practice game – Part 1 – lists

A recap of my list can be found here: The Herd of Khazbar the Magnificent

Scenario

We rolled Take and Hold. Played as per the rule book but victory goes to the general who has the most fortitude in their opponents half at the end of the game.

We completely messed this up (my fault really) and played as per the rule book and looked at victory points.

Terrain

Luke rolled just 2 pieces of scenery:

1 * Charnel Pit (units within 6″ are at -1 LD) – represented by the crater.

1 * Forest (turned out to be a fungus forest – causes stupidity)

The crater on the maps represents the Charnel Pit.

Secret Mission

We chose to use secret missions as this was a practice game. I chose the standard, stash the cash (choose a terrain feature outside ur deployment and get points if no nme occupy it). I completely forgot to ask Luke what he chose (are you spotting a trend here).

Pre-match rolls

After chopping and changing, the spell selections were as follows.

The Great Bray Shaman: Melkoths miasma, Enfeebling, Withering and Pit of Shades.

The shaman: Wyssans and Amber spear.

Daemon Prince: Acquiescence, Hysterical frenzy, Slicing shards, Phantasmagoria and Cacophonic Choir.

Sorcerer: Searing Doom and Glittering Robe.

Deployment 

I lost the roll and placed the first unit, we then alternated with Luke getting the bonus to the first turn roll for completing deployment first.

Warriors deployment 

Beastmen deployment 

Full deployment

Turn 1 – WoC

As you might have expected, the warriors started their turn by moving everything up the table. Luke was careful to leave most units at a distance where it would be difficult for me to complete charges.

The chalice of dark rain was invoked to attempt to neuter the hellcannon, so he marched it forward instead.

There was an average magic roll and  the Warshrine cast it’s bound spell and the Ogre champion gained +1 WS. Searing Doom, cast at the Minotaur, was dispelled.

Beastmen – Turn 1

The herd responded as aggressively as the Warriors, with the Doombull charging the Hounds on the left (who fled) and the right Razorgor charging the Hounds on the right, who held, at least until one of their number died when they decided to withdraw with all due haste. The left Razorgor marched up as close to the fleeing hounds as possible and the Ghorgon moved up to block the ogres, whilst remaining outside of the warriors charge arc.

The winds of magic were pitiful and the only thing that went off was a boosted miasma on the warriors reducing WS, M, BS and I by 2 each.

Warriors – Turn 2

The warriors chose this turn to charge in with almost everything they could. The ogres went into the Ghorgan, promptly losing one of their number. The Daemon Prince and BSB thundered into the horde of Gor but the Miasma on the warriors prevented them joining their leaders. The support wasn’t needed as the Prince ripped apart a handful of the Gor, whilst the BSB gutted the unit champion, gaining +1 Str as a reward. The Gor in return nullified the charmed shield and held due to steadfast. The Prince also cast acquiescence on the Doombull reducing him to D6 movement.

On the other flank, the Hellcannon fired at the Bestigor but it scattered, landing dead on the smaller unit of Gor deleting a full rank. The hounds and Skullcrushers charged the harpy unit, decimating them for the loss of one hound.

Beastmen – Turn 2

The Beastmen responded to the warriors in the only way they knew how and charged with everything they could. On the left flank the Razorgor charged the freshly rallied hounds, running them down as they fled. The Tuskgor chariot charged into the ogres to support the Ghorgon. Two ogres died and they failed their break test and were duly run down (I messed up on the battle reporter and showed this in the warriors turn). The Prince and BSB continued to hack through the horde for the loss of 1 wound on the BSB. The horde then reformed to maximise ranks (and conveniently removing any chance of the warriors being able to charge them next turn).

The small Gor unit charged the central hounds, killing them and over running. The Bestigors charged the Skullcrushers and with the help of a flank charge from the chariot, broke them but failed to catch them. The Razorgor charged the Hellcannon and the ensuing combat was a stalemate with a wound apiece. Finally the doombull shuffled up as fast as the random movement would allow.

Warriors – Turn 3

Due to some extremely sneaky play from the Beastmen, placing the Ghorgan 1″ away and the previous reform of the Gor Herd (I will thank Alex for this lesson learnt), the warriors were pretty much stranded. They couldn’t even wheel to aim for the doombull due to the Prince getting in the way, so Luke elected to reform them.

The Warshrine charged into the remains of the Gor horde and with the Prince and the BSB assisting, their numbers were starting to thin substantially. As a parting shot, one of the Gor managed to land a lucky blow on the BSB felling the exalted champion. The Doombull again had acquiescence cast on him much to my frustration.

The Hellcannon broke the  Razorgor but was unable to catch it.

Beastmen – Turn 3

On the left flank, the Razorgor charged the rear of warriors. The Ghorgan and Chariot lining up to assist the following turn. The Doombull again shambled along and was finally not too far from some targets. The small Gor herd charged the flank of the Warshrine but this still wasn’t enough to help the combat and the Gor horde final lost steadfast and buckled under the relentless assault of the Daemon Prince, ran and were utterly destroyed by the monster.

The Bestigor and chariot again charged the Skullcrushers killing another but the combat tied. The remaining Harpies ran down the routing hounds and the Razorgor managed to rally.

This turned out to be the final turn of the game as we blatantly ran out of time.

Result

When working out the result I blissfully forgot the comp rules and instead we looked at victory points. He had killed around 590pts of my stuff vs around 600pts of his.

Looking at the photos if we’d used the comp rules it also would have been a draw as the only fortitude bearing unit of his, on my side of the board, was the Skullcrushers but they were under strength.

Evaluation

I’ll start with talking about the game length. It became very apparent to me that my knowledge of the combat phase is definitely lacking, specifically basic rules around fleeing. There were also a number breaks for rules clarification from both of us. This all combined to not make gameplay as streamlined as it should have been. My note taking was also slowing it down, which is why I stopped after the first turn. 

After writing the above result section, I realised that when his Skullcrushers fled from the initial combat he would have lost another model (his standard bearer). This meant that it definitely would have been a draw. I also need to generally learn my list a little better too as, for example, my Bestigor would have captured the Skullcrusher Standard and added it to their combat res’. I must also remember primal fury for the crew and creatures on the chariots and fear and terror checks!

So what worked and what didn’t on the list. Well i’ll start with not taking a dispel scroll. I felt the lack of it even in the 3 turns we played. A 6+ spell crippled my Doombull for 4 turns. I’m not sure what I was expecting but Magic seemed fairly sparce across the board for the whole game. Luke managed to cast acquiescence twice on the Doombull and the bound spell on the Warshrine once. I managed Miasma once. Three of the casts impacted movement and in each case made a massive difference. I had heard of the rule of one (as in only expect to get one spell off a turn) and this was demonstrated in this match.

I also messed up deployment somewhat. Yes the units were matched up about as best as they could be, however I need to arrange the BSB and General to get the best leadership bubble coverage. Not being in range to use the general’s leadership on the horde for a couple of turns was really felt when they failed their primal fury.

I felt the horde did OK. I was pleased I reformed them when I did. The aim was to get more ranks but stopping the warriors charging was an added bonus.

I chose not to ambush the smaller Gor unit which might have been  a mistake but with 2 of the table edges being impassable and the random deployment for beastmen ambush, I assumed if the roll had been for those edges, they would have remained in reserve.

The Ghorgon did quite well against the Ogres. Although I lost thunderstomp it was a reasonably good match up for him. It may have been a different matter if either of us had remembered the mark of nurgle.

My use of the scouting Harpies was sub-par. Just because they can scout doesn’t mean they have to. I also dithered in their use but at least ran down the hounds to gain some VPs.

It’s a shame the Doombull didn’t get into combat with the combat beast that was masquerading as a Daemon Prince. It would have been an interesting match up and would have given me an idea of his potential in combat.

Overall I was reasonably pleased with how things went, especially for a first game. Am I ready for the 2nd stage of the comp using the Beastmen army? No, but I did have fun with the list and in theory I should only get better with it, so hopefully that will continue when up against the likes of Dan, Paul and Neil. If nothing else, they will help educate me further (as they normal do when playing them) so my playing with the beasts will get stronger.

The main thing was that it was enjoyable to use them and to play against Luke. I still love his army and their paint scheme as it reminds me of my early warhammer playing days. I may well have to dig out my orcs because of this.

Beastmen vs WoC – SELWG stage 2 practice game – Part 1 – lists

On Friday 4 Nov I had the pleasure of facing off against a new club member, Luke and his ancient, child friendly lead (😜) 3rd/4th ed. Warriors of Chaos army.  It is made up entirely of old skool figures that are painted in a suitable chaotic scheme (as displayed in the below photo).

He  had recently gotten back into the game so was still learning 8th ed and had entered into the whfb comp for the 2nd stage (automatically putting him into group C or D) and wanted to try out his list. I will add (to get excuses in now) that he may be new to 8th but he’s probably played more games in the last month or so than I have in the last six.

With myself also wanting to try out the unused Beastmen list, the stage was set for an epic showdown between the Chaos powers, or the battle of ‘I wish I’d put something else in the list’!

So with that said I’ll post his list and then talk through what worries me (errm a lot as it happens!).

Note: This post was written before the game but I held off publishing it as it contained his competition army list so didn’t want to unfairly penalise him by giving his opponents a heads up on his list before the submission deadline. It also helps to explain why I jump between tenses. My use of English isn’t normally this bad!

Characters 

Daemon Prince – 495pts

Level 4 Lore of Slannesh + Chaos Familiar + Chaos armour + poisonous slime + scaled skin + soul feeder + charmed sh + dragonbane gem + the other tricksters shard

Chaos Sorcerer – 190pts

Level 2 – Lore of Metal + Chaos armour + luckstone + dispel scroll

Exhalted Hero – BSB – 241pts

Chaos armour + enchanted sh + disc of Tzeentch + Mark of Tzeentch + Talisman of Preservation + Third eye of Tzeentch

Core

5 Chaos Hounds – 30pts

5 Chaos Hounds – 30pts

5 Chaos Hound – 30pts

29 Chaos Warriors – 538pts

Chaos armour + sh + Mark of Tzeentch + FC + Banner of Movement

Special 

6 Chaos Ogres – 270pts

HA + AHW + Mark of Nurgle + FC

Chaos Warshrine – 135pts

Mark of Tzeentch

Rare

1 Hellcannon – 210pts

4 Skullcrushers – 330pts

Chaos armour + sh + Mark of Khorne + FC
List review

The first thing that was obvious to me upon receiving the list was that I needed to swot up on the WoC army book having not played them in over a year. There were some items (such as the Warshrine) where I had no idea of the rules. (This would be rectified by the bottom of the post!)

The second thing is that jumps out is the large number of high strength, high toughness models, also with high ward saves. I can potentially mitigate the str and toughness but I’m woefully impotent against the wards. About the only thing I can do is pump a high enough amount of attacks in and hope he fails them. Perhaps not the most auspicious of plans.

Characters 

The prince is quite literally a monster with a 1+ 5++ save and 5 WS 9, Str 6 AP + poisoned attacks and knowing 5 spells. He also has a 1/6 chance of healing a wound for every one he causes. He frankly worries me as I don’t have a huge amount that can deal with high armour and anything that could kill him has to survive his attacks before striking back.

The sorcerer not so much. I just need to force the dispel scroll as early as possible.  Metal is not the most frightening Lore for me due to most of my army not having saves. I suspect he will be in the Warriors so the other option is to just allocate attacks to him in combat.
The BSB is a fairly standard unkillable build with a 1+, 3++ save and rerolling ward saves of a 1 (although with a halberd he drops to a 3+, 3++ in combat). There is probably little I can do about him except to ignore him!

Units

The warriors although a solid anvil with a 3+, 5++, should be destroyable if only through overwhelming force (horde target number 1).

The dogs are a nuisance but taking them out with the doombull and Ghorgon will help beef up their attacks!

The Ogres by themselves aren’t hugely worrying compared to some of his list but the Mark of Nurgle definitely makes them far more robust. Not having anything to counter the to hit penalty, bar impacts could cause problems.

Chaos Warshrine – in itself it isn’t too threatening as although it technically counts as a T5 W5 chariot with a 4+, 3++ save (due to the Mark), it doesn’t have impact hits, which is something I guess. It’s main benefit is to allow characters to add an additional D6 when rolling on the eye of the gods table and then allow them to discard one of their choice. This massively helps prevent the bad rolls that can happen on the table.

Skullcrushers can be brutal but I’ll be hoping that I can either use harpies to redirect/frenzy bait them to somewhere useless on the board or failing that see if I can use the Bestigors to whittle them down.

I’ve only faced a hellcannon once before and it spent most of the game trying to charge my gyrocoptor. Perhaps my other unit of harpies can distract it in a similar manner. I definitely don’t want it targeting my large units as the str 5 template would cause issues!